Wheel of Time or Wheel of the White Tower?

[Necro-367]

Alright, slight disclaimer, but this isn't meant as a jab at anyone nor is it meant offensively...

But I'm starting to feel like I'm seeing what happened to the server, and what will inevitably happen to it again. The server dies over and over again because the people that come back to it are only wanting to Roleplay an Aes Sedai and be involved with the White Tower. No one leaves Tar Valon, no one really plays anything beyond someone involved directly with the White Tower. I've even seen all of the Roleplay, even the DM Roleplay, be secluded to the specific clique of Aes Sedai and the White Tower...

I'm just advising that people should avoid this. It's the reason the server inevitably dies after every attempted revive, and it has become a swift reminder to me in my return of why I don't come back around myself. I know it was an issue and reason behind a few other's departures as well...

On a side note, I've noticed what seems like more Party Chat than actual Roleplay...

All in all, it's seeming like the server has become a gathering grounds for a small clique of friends to mess around as Aes Sedai in their Gang Hideout that they never leave...

As a RPer of 13 years, a NWN Wheel of Time player of 10 years, and a DM of numerous years... I'm telling you, from all my experiences, this is going to ruin the server if any of you were trying to bring back the old life to some degree and re-inspire Roleplay in everyone. However, if you were just looking for a place to nostalgically hangout with old friends and occassionally RP as much as you OOC chat, then by all means continue; you're doing so perfectly.

Just let it be known so those of us that are actively wanting to actually RP can take their efforts elsewhere...

[erriansil]

Actually. Fairly good point. I dont know other pc's as well, and im recent. I hoped the spice trade event sort of thing with the cinnamon might attract non channelers, but I havent run that in a bit >> <<

Anyways. On my end, there's two event 'chains' coming up that might be interesting. Details to be posted tomorrow.

[Azelle]

I've noticed too. I think it was something along the lines of "Everyone here has an Aes Sedai, and those who don't, left."

I don't think it's purely a problem with Aes Sedai though. A thing to remember is that it's a game, and it's meant to be fun for everyone. There's no reason that a lot of Aes Sedai is a problem so long as they don't actively exclude others as happened so often in the past to maintain an appearance of power at the expense of others' enjoyment.

[DeathProphet]

I must agree with necro. I started back in TA slightly earlier than him and it always ends up that way. the WT will have 15+ players and no one does anything else. So you either joined the defenders and stand around all day just watching them rp, or try to rp with the few who didn't do tower rp, including the BT. I understand the attraction, yet they never leave the damned tower. So even if you main a cotl, youd have to invade TV to even attempt rp. Oh well, hopefully we can get things rolling. I have notice in my return that the dms are atleast not soley focused on the WT. Which is enough for me besides I have the awesomeness of spike on my team, buhuhaha!

[Necro-367]

So what I'm getting from this post, along with what I know of people who stopped playing, is that mostly Non-Aes Sedai all agree to this. And our general population of current 'Aes Sedai' are completely ignoring the issue both here and IG. What is even more disheartening to me is that our current 'Head' or whatever you want to call her(him), is completely ignoring this post also and making no effort to insure everyone on the server is involved. What exactly is involved with being the 'Project Lead'? Because from what it seems, it's just a thumbs up or thumbs down to DM's Events, and if so it's not really a necessary position.

What I do appreciate are the efforts made by the only DM/Storyteller really doing anything, or making any effort at all to incorporate everyone, by the DM Team. I don't understand why he doesn't have Project Lead.

[DeathProphet]

Its easier to divide the work *Sage nod* we've had some awesome rp going this week outside of the tower.

[Necro-367]

But pointless if that division of work isn't even being handled separately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of that RP is from erriansil, no?

[erriansil]

Ehhh. I have little desire, and the amount of time I have to dedicate is going to decrease over the next two weeks to try and be a project lead.

I will continue to do what I can in the non-tower rp, ive hopes to do some BT and more CotL events in the near future, and maybe just maybe some Seanchan occurances

EDIT: I should also add, since I didnt quite read above. Kerry has so far been vital to ensure mod updates, is doing some building that might be very cool, and helps me hash out some of the plotlines as of late.

[Hopea]

The lack of non-WT players is, well, a problem for those who want non-WT RP.
But, well, there's not much that can be done about that, some of us like WT RP and some of us don't, and some like both WT RP and non-WT RP.
I personally have a couple of ideas for non-faction PCs, but, there tends to be someone to talk to around the WT so yea.

I will add that there have been, are and likely/hopefully will be events in the WT that aren't Aes Sedai exclusive, even some that aren't WT exclusive.

But, when those are happening there either are no other PCs around, or they are afk standing in the yard.

There are also events in which we could bring non-Aes Sedai we're familiar with, but, I at least, even in the spirit of inclusivity, am not going to Travel half the world to pick up a stranger to join us in the Black Ajah hunt, for example.
Infact, not even all the Aes Sedai are invited for those ones, before they've made themselves known iC.

[Necro-367]

Jul 13, 2015 0:16:55 GMT -5 erriansil said:

EDIT: I should also add, since I didnt quite read above. Kerry has so far been vital to ensure mod updates, is doing some building that might be very cool, and helps me hash out some of the plotlines as of late.

Which is fantastic and all. But coming from years and years of experience as a DM and a player, like 8-9 years on this exact WoT NWN server alone, all of that does no good if you're putting it before the players. Especially on a small community. What good does mod updates and new areas do on a RP server if all of the RP is being secluded? (Not speaking of all the things you've been doing lately, but you are only one person and won't always be around)

It's the unwritten etiquette of a Head or Admin to provide towards RP, encourage it, and keep things progressing and IC. A world is not a world without the players and the RP first, fancy mods and updated areas are secondary.

And to be completely honest and blunt here... Whenever I see Aes Sedai on in general, to include Project Lead, I see complete and utter seclusion 95% of online time, what RP I have received is then also seclusive in itself (whispering along with fellow Aes Sedai off to the side), practically more party chat and random nonsense than actual RP; sometimes it goes as far as seeming like there's more effort put into being nonsensical than towards the RP. It's a surprise if you catch them outside the Tower, let alone outside TV. It seems like they only want to RP with themselves.

Just being forward with my thoughts as I'm beginning to ask myself why I even bother logging on anymore. Lately it's just been in search of RP with erriansil and HearMeRoar, who seem to be the only providers anymore.

[Kerry Sedai]

Let me just say the reason I have not posted thus far is that I considered the post itself to be something of an absurdity and obvious flamebait.

The server was dead as a pile of lead bricks and now it isn't and now that there's actually a pie to be divided everyone wants to claim their 'fair share' and decide how the person responsible for the revival should use his own freely given time. (Happy to give Froth due credit)

srweaves.proboards.com/thread/612/come-back?page=1

Proof that all people wanted was 'players' to interact with and now they have them they make aggressive attacks on staff, question the necessity of them and try to play us against each other.

I have been doing a whole number of administrative things including by the way hiring Erriansil as a DM, giving a deadline to our existing DMs to submit some sort of event. Opened storyteller recruitment and tinkering with some of the scripting in order to be able to make passable modifications.

I've also been working with the host to actually discover how to update the module we use on a regular basis.

What I do not have is a budget of tens of thousands a year to hire full time event staff to put in the same level of ridiculous enthusiasm and effort that Froth naturally outputs.

I have never 'bitched' at Froth to come do events for the White Tower and I think it's unacceptable that you would have the unmitigated cheek to do so.

So in summary?

DM attention is a nice bonus that depends on people who are both talented and energetic enough to handle this side of the server.

There are people. You do not get to post 'come back i'm lonely' and then immediately begin attacking how people choose to spend their time or at the very least it will not gain you special privileges or bring myself or anyone else to a negotiating table where we decide how best to meet your specific needs.

[Necro-367]

Jul 13, 2015 0:45:40 GMT -5 Hopea said:

The lack of non-WT players is, well, a problem for those who want non-WT RP.
But, well, there's not much that can be done about that, some of us like WT RP and some of us don't, and some like both WT RP and non-WT RP.
I personally have a couple of ideas for non-faction PCs, but, there tends to be someone to talk to around the WT so yea.

I will add that there have been, are and likely/hopefully will be events in the WT that aren't Aes Sedai exclusive, even some that aren't WT exclusive.

But, when those are happening there either are no other PCs around, or they are afk standing in the yard.

There are also events in which we could bring non-Aes Sedai we're familiar with, but, I at least, even in the spirit of inclusivity, am not going to Travel half the world to pick up a stranger to join us in the Black Ajah hunt, for example.
Infact, not even all the Aes Sedai are invited for those ones, before they've made themselves known iC.

What you're saying here is basically, in summary, "Either play an Aes Sedai and like it, or suck it up and deal with the fact that, yes, we keep our RP seclusive." Which, from a player's standpoint, is utterly ridiculous.

1. "The lack of non-WT players is, well, a problem for those who want non-WT RP." is basically saying if you're non-WT then sucks to be you. You therefore -are- the problem.

2. "But, well, there's not much that can be done about that, some of us like WT RP and some of us don't, and some like both WT RP and non-WT RP." - this makes absolutely no sense, as the idea is about everyone learning to RP together, not what RP you prefer. If you prefer RPing an Aes Sedai, that's completely your prerogative. However that in no way infers you are only able to have WT-WT RP, and everyone else is shit.

3. "There are also events in which we could bring non-Aes Sedai we're familiar with, but, I at least, even in the spirit of inclusivity, am not going to Travel half the world to pick up a stranger to join us in the Black Ajah hunt, for example." - That's the exact problem. There shouldn't be Aes Sedai exclusive Black Ajah hunts happening if there is someone else in the world that could be involved. Not when it's most all the time. Occassionally is completely understandable, as long as the love is spread, which is what erriansil seems to be trying to do.

[Hopea]

Jul 13, 2015 0:49:36 GMT -5 Necro-367 said:

It's a surprise if you catch them outside the Tower, let alone outside TV.

On a side note, I've used to "be caught outside" the Tower, and even Tar Valon.
Two things ever happened: I got into very odd conversations with the Black Tower people which, while fun, were RP/iCly weird. Or, I got harrassed/treathened by Whitecloaks.
So, no, I don't iCly leave it much anymore.

practically more party chat and random nonsense than actual RP; sometimes it goes as far as seeming like there's more effort put into being nonsensical than towards the RP.

While we do do party chat, fear not, we also do way way more iC RP chat. And while, at times, said iC chat may seem silly, lets say there have been circumstances to warrant it.

[Hopea]

What you're saying here is basically, in summary, "Either play an Aes Sedai and like it, or suck it up and deal with the fact that, yes, we keep our RP seclusive." Which, from a player's standpoint, is utterly ridiculous.

1. "The lack of non-WT players is, well, a problem for those who want non-WT RP." is basically saying if you're non-WT then sucks to be you. You therefore -are- the problem.

2. "But, well, there's not much that can be done about that, some of us like WT RP and some of us don't, and some like both WT RP and non-WT RP." - this makes absolutely no sense, as the idea is about everyone learning to RP together, not what RP you prefer. If you prefer RPing an Aes Sedai, that's completely your prerogative. However that in no way infers you are only able to have WT-WT RP, and everyone else is shit.

3. "There are also events in which we could bring non-Aes Sedai we're familiar with, but, I at least, even in the spirit of inclusivity, am not going to Travel half the world to pick up a stranger to join us in the Black Ajah hunt, for example." - That's the exact problem. There shouldn't be Aes Sedai exclusive Black Ajah hunts happening if there is someone else in the world that could be involved. Not when it's most all the time. Occassionally is completely understandable, as long as the love is spread, which is what erriansil seems to be trying to do.

Lovely, but, no.
You don't have to play an Aes Sedai to provide me with RP, I do not have to play a non-Aes Sedai to provide you with RP. If I want to keep my Aes Sedai in TV, I can. If you don't want to bring your non-Aes Sedai to TV, you don't have to.
We don't seem to have enough players interested in non-WT RP things to keep things going outside of it without a DM constantly on for them.
I don't know what could be done about this, but I do know passive agressive "the girls are chatting in the corner again" jabs are not going to fix it.

^This was my point.
Also, I haven't recieved invites to Whitecloaks/BT/any other faction RP myself either. And when we had a WT and Whitecloak event happen at the same time, place and side, it ended with a CotL PC casually decapping an NPC Sedai (and complaining OoC when I held them with Air while trying to figure out how to deal with this without having PCs die) right in front of us, so I'm not sure I want any, either.

[Necro-367]

Jul 13, 2015 0:51:57 GMT -5 Kerry Sedai said:

Let me just say the reason I have not posted thus far is that I considered the post itself to be something of an absurdity and obvious flamebait.

The server was dead as a pile of lead bricks and now it isn't and now that there's actually a pie to be divided everyone wants to claim their 'fair share' and decide how the person responsible for the revival should use his own freely given time. (Happy to give Froth due credit)

srweaves.proboards.com/thread/612/come-back?page=1

Proof that all people wanted was 'players' to interact with and now they have them they make aggressive attacks on staff, question the necessity of them and try to play us against each other.

I have been doing a whole number of administrative things including by the way hiring Erriansil as a DM, giving a deadline to our existing DMs to submit some sort of event. Opened storyteller recruitment and tinkering with some of the scripting in order to be able to make passable modifications.

I've also been working with the host to actually discover how to update the module we use on a regular basis.

What I do not have is a budget of tens of thousands a year to hire full time event staff to put in the same level of ridiculous enthusiasm and effort that Froth naturally outputs.

I have never 'bitched' at Froth to come do events for the White Tower and I think it's unacceptable that you would have the unmitigated cheek to do so.

So in summary?

DM attention is a nice bonus that depends on people who are both talented and energetic enough to handle this side of the server.

There are people. You do not get to post 'come back i'm lonely' and then immediately begin attacking how people choose to spend their time or at the very least it will not gain you special privileges or bring myself or anyone else to a negotiating table where we decide how best to meet your specific needs.

"Let me just say the reason I have not posted thus far is that I considered the post itself to be something of an absurdity and obvious flamebait." - No, the reason you haven't posted to it is because you're too busy RPing exclusively versus owning up to your position. If you want to try and deter it to something like 'flamebait' simply so you can demean it and look above a debate, then that's on you. You're calling something that 3 people have agreed to 'absurdity'. So is that what the 'Project Lead' thinks of the Player's thoughts? Everything the Player's think is absurdity? That is poor leadership at it's finest.

"The server was dead as a pile of lead bricks and now it isn't and now that there's actually a pie to be divided everyone wants to claim their 'fair share' and decide how the person responsible for the revival should use his own freely given time. (Happy to give Froth due credit)" - I have no idea who 'Froth' is, but ironically what you linked was my doing from the start. It was also my idea to work with Power to start a FB page where most of the conversation of spreading the word has happened, a lot of which is done by myself in fact.

"hiring Erriansil as a DM" - You do not 'hire' DMs. You simply give a willing person the ability to use DM client if they have the motivation and drive to see to the players. No offense to you, Erriansil, you've been doing a great job. But don't try to take this and make it look more glorious than it is. You are not paying someone to DM the server, if anything you found someone willing to DM things. Congrats on that. But being un-phased by having most of that RP kept to yourself is again poor leadership.

"I have never 'bitched' at Froth to come do events for the White Tower and I think it's unacceptable that you would have the unmitigated cheek to do so." No one is bitching for events, but if anyone is making this a flame thread it's you. Congratulations on your inability to remain professional. Now what is the concern is that the Players; those players being yourself, Joase, and Sylvia, only desire to RP with each other (I can call out names since you want to be unprofessional and disrespectful).

"There are people. You do not get to post 'come back i'm lonely' and then immediately begin attacking how people choose to spend their time or at the very least it will not gain you special privileges or bring myself or anyone else to a negotiating table where we decide how best to meet your specific needs." - And finally, this right here informs me that you do not hold the level of competence, experience, knowledge, or maturity to act as a Leader. I can't even begin to sum up the idiocy and unprofessional ism, so I'll just leave explaining this.