From a True Fans perspective

[IKI]

First and foremost, I feel like a douche bag for saying this, simply because i do not know how to build, script or add any other contribution to Nwn's WoT themed Mods out there except my opinion and RP. I have no clue how hard it is, or how much time is spent trying to bring the book's that Captivated us for so many years together and bring Robert Jordan's world to life on a NWN's platform. With that said, i'll continue with what I have to say that will hopefully solidify a permanent Wheel of Time Mod for many years to come.

Step One:Merger, merger, merger...over the years their have been many so many WoT Mods but all it did was split the player base and in my opinion doomed us all from the get go. One united Mod, built from all the existing ones I think would be the best way. There would have to be a Team that was on board but together and votes to determine what should stay and what should go. I think there could finally be a Utopia.

If possible and given permission of other WoT Mods ripped there guts out, take what would be best then move on. 

Ex.

Third Age-Biggest positive, I would have to say was amount of player base, Logging in without having to download haks or CEP made it convenient. But now, that the game is older and less players I think that is irreverent. Also was Class wise friendly to those who played FR's. Negative, to much FR and not enough WoT.

True Source-I think custom classes was it's crowning jewel. Negative, small player base. 

Shadow Rising-To be honest, played maybe a week there, so anything I say on it wouldn't hold much value.

Gathering Storm-Never knew about in till to late.

TTS MotP-Man, they had there finger all over the place but never on the tip of the sword. They went so hard core cannon, that i think it killed the fun of the actual NWN game, unless you read the books and actually knew about them in my opinion put a strangle hold on getting new player's interested. They capped lvl's at 20, installed RR's (Random Roads), and pretty much made any type of good gear unattainable. Horrible decisions that i think played tribute to its demise. Whats so sad is, I have never seen better cities built, they each had an awesome uniqueness to them. There WT and Cairhein cities are the best I have ever seen built.

WoT ANB-The Aussie Sever, some real cool stuff there as well, unique classes... pretty much a dead server now. 


I would really love to come here and bust my ass to hopefully try and keep this alive...but no custom classes, cookie cutter old designed cities is a turn off. Seems like i would be wasting time on another WoT server destined to fail. Char customization, head, colors, ...Crafting armor, ... should be simple easily, attainable and free. There has to be a balance between Cannon and Nwn's fun, In my Opinion, NwN's Time, distance and gear should be kept over a WoT based Mod. *Shrugs* I'm done ranting. Just my thoughts. I just want to see the best server out there representing the World RJ created that I love.





 

[thecapulet]

Jacquie is working on Caemlyn. I'm working on replacing most of Andor atm. My plans (Though these are only my own) are to have all areas unique to this project. That way it can eventually be released publicly without concern of permissions.

If you want an idea of what my areas are like, hit up Whitebridge. I'm a bit biased, but I think that they're some of the best/well built areas to go into a WoT mod where cannon environmental design is concerned.

I'd certainly be open to talking to the ANB guys, and we've even got offers from TTS guys. But my insistence on "open source" areas I think may keep a lot of guys from wanting to contribute.

Cairheinen areas are something I'll start looking into when I finish some more Andoran areas, since a lot of larger city work can be carried over to different cities. I was a DM on TTS, but to be honest, I never even made it to most of the areas there due to some RL stuff slamming me as soon as I accepted the position. I'd love to know what you liked about it and other areas that I can think about while building new cities.

You can find more info on areas I'm building here: srweaves.proboards.com/thread/490/

[IKI]

Oh, one other thing, I think another thing that doomed MotP from the start was choice of time frame, think that was a big Factor because it kept a lot of Future Factions out of the loop. Especially with a low magic world and males at a rare disadvantage.

I'll take a gander at the areas you have built.

What do you mean "open source" Areas???

"I'd love to know what you liked about it and other areas that I can think about while building new cities".

My point is that there is already good enough cities built on MotP. Honestly, Eastern Andor, Cairhien, part of the Waste, the White Tower and Shienar should be the base area we play in to start, as the player base rises add more. Small player base, big world things tend to get muddled and too spread out. MotP in a post, i think, offered a compromise and was willing to speak but seemed that this Mod and a certain direction wanted to build there own areas. Not trying to dog what others have built, but if something out there is built solid I think you all should absorb it. As noble as it sounds to build your own thing, I think time spent in another direction and dming events would be better. Maybe i just don't know, what were MotP demands?

[IKI]

Concern of permission...I find that quite fickle...the capulet, i remember i called you out on True Source forums for posting about trying to start a new Wheel of Time Mod on your own and was seeking help from the player base on a already established WoT Mod. Poacher I believe is what i called you. Was a few years back and I think the both of us have grown wiser over the years. Your basically dealing with dead WoT mods now that are gone, and i think would be willing to give up claim in order to try and keep RJ's world alive on Nwn's rather than let it just fade away and vanish. But regardless, NWN's, WoT, belongs to none of us. Instead of trying to build it now, I think it would be best if you tried to diplomatically gain permission and chop them all up into one best of the best WoT mods.

[IKI]

Ouch, that probably came off hella wrong on how i said bout the poaching thing, was meant as a resilience and passion for WoT more than anything else. Sorry. (LOL but at the time it pissed me off ) I'm FB friends of 2 of the biggest contributors of MotP arguably, have no clue if they have any say anymore, not really sure who has the finial decision if Mod can be passed on but willing to reach out if you all want.

[thecapulet]

By open source, I mean areas that can be posted to the vault as is, with no conditions attached.

I think you and I see eye to eye on what the results should be though: Something that doesn't disappear again.
The way I'd like to see that done though is to eventually release the mod in it's entirety to the NWN community to do with as they please. That way, if one server goes down, there's a mod available to bring it right back up again.

A solitary WoT community is something I've been preaching about since my days as TA admin. Personally, I think the best way to do that is to give everything to the community, and let the community itself work out where to play and why. And the best way to do that is to provide a mod to everyone that is good enough that it'd be silly to build a competing one. As well as provide a good website that can service multiple servers or even multiple communities. (Which is very very close to being finished, providing that I can finish the security rewrite quickly)

I'll be honest, the permissions issue has another side to that coin. It's an excuse to not use many areas that I don't feel are up to modern game design quality standards. With that said though, I'm a perfectionist and I don't really find a majority of the areas I've seen over the years to be of much quality. That quality is my major motivation, because it's never been something consistent within the NWN WoT community as a whole, and I think it will be a major attraction that brings players back in, old and new.

My post way back in the day on TS was actually an attempt to bring the community together for NWN2. I realize now that I should have provided the framework for something like that to grow, rather than hoping people would jump on board just because. That framework is actually something I'm actively working towards now, in hopes to not see this community do another disappearing act.

[thecapulet]

Mar 20, 2014 1:28:34 GMT -5 IKI said:

I'm FB friends of 2 of the biggest contributors of MotP arguably, have no clue if they have any say anymore, not really sure who has the finial decision if Mod can be passed on but willing to reach out if you all want.

I'd kill for some of MotP's scripting. But they'd have to donate it knowing that it'd be posted on the vault for anyone to use & edit. (I believe that's what stopped them from offering anything when they were in contact with flame/jaq/mav/dream (no idea which one actually talked to them))

And no offense taken, man. lol. I've never been much for tactfulness. It's a weakness I've accepted long ago.

[Dreamchild]

I had contact with Genova, the only name I can remember for that player, a few months ago. Was opening up for trying to merger in some way, but I never heard back.

[IKI]

Mod released to Community? LOL Hell naw. I personally think that would invite downfall if MOD was available to the community. At anytime, if A handful of players disagreed with direction of staff, they could say screw you and run there own WOT server, and there goes the splitting of Player base. You might even end up with several of the same Mod's at the same time and all is watered down. No good would ever come of that in my opinion.

[thecapulet]

Thats the thing though... That'll happen. There's no way around it. A mod will pop up, players might get pissed off, then more of those players will break away and start another mod, spiraling into an endless cycle. I won't say that risk isn't real, because it is. Hell, it's already happened. Pre TA (can't remember the server name) to TA, to TA (lol), to SR, to TGS, tts to MotP and ANB, etc... And realistically, there's no way anyone could say it won't happen again. And history has proven that keeping a mod private doesn't prevent it from happening. (And it's also proven that thievery is inevitable.)

Why not provide a framework that not only makes it possible, but encourages it? It's this idea of power or ownership that realistically keeps it happening as it has. If that power or ownership is removed, it'll come down to where the players are at. Who's running the best server, who's got the most stable rig to run it, who's running the administration most fairly, who's ultimately providing the best experience for the community?

It removes the ownership aspect because the power has actually been given to the community itself. That way, if there ever is a reason to move from one host to another, or one admin team to another, it's not rooted in petty reasons of power, ownership, or entitlement.

It's something I've thought about long and hard over the years. But more importantly, it's something that I've seen other communities model. And I've come to realize that it's actually the most successful way to run (Edit: run is the wrong word. Foster community growth is perhaps a better way to put it) a community, because even though it might encourage changes (Which is vitally important to prevent stagnation and loss of interest), it discourages actual community splits. It puts the community's best interest first and foremost.

Pair that with a neutral community portal where no one owns anything and anyone is open to use it & create new forums (similar to the old bio boards), and I think it'd be a good formula to prevent community fractures from taking down the community as a whole ever again.

[thecapulet]

And I'll say this as well; this is the first time I've actually explained this in so much depth, even among the admins and builders. I'm a host and a builder, but in no way an admin or DM (nor do I want to be). So this idea may never even see the light of day while this server is still up, as it depends entirely on the current & future admin team here. It's an all in or nothing idea that wont go anywhere without everyone's support. But I believe wholeheartedly that it is in the community's best interest, and will provide it the most longevity. It's a fire and forget method that prevents the community from relying too heavily on any one person or group of people.

[IKI]

I'm having a difficult time understanding your logic. What Mods, communities have you personally seen this approach benefit them in the long run? To me i would think it would only undermined and do more damage than good, and drive a wedge than balance out. Were Mods based off of Book Series? Or FR's Lore?

[thecapulet]

My experience concerning this is actually from communities that have nothing at all to do with WoT or nwn. Since the closure of TA, I've started two other gaming communities based off of other games, and have witnessed the rise and decline of many many more.

But it was actually from other NWN server communities that this idea grew from, through discussions with the admins from communities like Amia and Arileth, and others like them, as well as other RP communities within Arma who's playerbase and community politics by far eclipses anything that I've ever dealt with in NWN.

But more to the point, in which ways do you think that it would undermine and damage the community? Those ideas could help further distill this idea into something more useful for the community.

[IKI]

Biggest problem i see with that cap, is, everyone has an opinion and thinks that there right. How is a community to survive with so many different views, opinions and have no direction? You need a staff that you put your faith in to or it's just chaos, he said, she said, i think, they think... I'd rather put my faith in a small few than the masses.

[thecapulet]

Everyone has opinions and many differing views, but in my experience, there are very few who are willing to stand up and do anything about them. And those that are, usually have a point. If one guy says "hey, I think it should be this way", and starts his own server, he has the best platform to work from, since it's identical to the one they already like and enjoy. It puts everyone on even ground. That way, this hypothetical guy only has the community's interest to base his claim on. His mod is the same, his forums are the same, so it simply comes down to how things are run, and whether those ideas are best for the community.

If they are indeed better for the community, it's best that it does happen. It'd be pointless to stay in one place when another place is clearly better. But if they're not, they simply won't have any players. And if the community doesn't follow them, they know that it wasn't in the community's best interest because the community itself voted with it's feet. And no players = no server, at which point they'll try other methods to fix stuff, such as working within the hypothetical current admin team to see changes that they think are best. And of course, if that doesn't happen, then they realize that they either have to come to terms with the way things are, or move on.