Nobility Idea (Collated and Expanded)
Jan 26, 2014 14:16:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 14:16:32 GMT -5
NOBLES
[Summarising previous discussion here: srweaves.proboards.com/thread/282/nobility-discussion-thread-2]
- Resource Intensive?
- Limited to a few Houses
- How would one be both an active Noble and active Faction Member?
- Requires a lot of creativity and interaction
- That no one has proposed a full fledged idea that actually wants it worries me about it's long term success
- May take away from Factions
- I don’t know what you guys think, but well, here are some pressing IC concerns too (unless you all make new characters for it):
- Would be IC impossible for Novices/Accepted due to travel restrictions and manner of training
- Would be IC difficult for Asha’man due to high requirements of loyalty and dangerousness
- Would be IC unlikely the average Child of the Light would split himself such (though could be a ploy to get into Andor)
The Idea Based on What You’ve all Said
- Possibility ncreasing Skills/Rank and Skills/Specialized Rank
- More Responsibility and Power to Direct House Affairs at Meetings, Events, Interaction with DMs, Calibre of Scripted Quest
- Max Rank 3 if in a Player Faction
- List of IC commodities, land, structures, troops, servant types, messengers and so forth that one can purchase by accumulating scripted quest tokens (at Higher ranks) and DM and Player Vouches
- More fluid system of losing and gaining prestige eg. Fortnightly Dinner Meeting in which, at the end, a secret vote to determine special ranks in the faction is carried out – to appoint/confirm positions, so must build alliances
RP Ideas – Player Driven and Events that Are For All / Can Be Earned with Rank
- Partaking in Feasts and Festivals
- Organizing Feasts and Festivals (Player Driven, using a commodity purchase system) – one can e.g. pool allies when it is their turn to buy better things to show off at a feast
- Winning rights to negotiate House contracts (RP rank – event)
- Hold poetry competitions or performance nights (player driven)
- Hire player performers (Player driven)
- Participating at the Queen’s court (ranked)
- Dealing with other Houses (any rank; but more event stuff centred on you at higher rank – though not usually excluding others except high level meetings)
Promotion
- Progression through: accumulation of scripted quest completion tokens, but largely through RP Vouch System [As only getting RP skill item and to make House more dynamic immediately, suggest a faster pace than Non-faction progression]
- Fortnightly dinner
- Duelling
- General intrigue possible (Player driven)
- Be Master of Coin (event influence)
- Organize the hunt (ranked) - e.g. pick location, resources etc.
- Spying (player driven, some events)
- Bump off or intrigue NPC rivals in the special positions in the House that exist when all are Rank 1
Quests: (Scripted Quests Available around Ranks 1-3) That Award X Number of Tokens [Most progression would still be RP based] But these are also useful to buy commodities in the short term
- Initially, one can use lesser valued Scripted Quest tokens to help purchase items (along with RP vouches)
- These would be in the form of a “purchase order” based on a list of goods able to procured to Andor, time it would take to deliver, value, and floating rates based on wars/famines, disease, the usual stuff, it may well be that the value rises or falls by the time it gets to you
Scripted Quest Ideas (R1 - 3):
- Messenger to other Houses in Caemlyn
- Learn the House Lore
- Taste wine at the vinyards, pick the best for dinner
- Crack a secret message code
- Foil an assassination of the High Seat
- Guard the treasury Vault from thieves
- Train the House Guard
House Suggestions [PICK 2 or 3]:
House Renshar (Three Golden Hounds), High Seat: Lady Arathelle (Morgase supporter in the Books)
House Arawn (Silver triple keys), High Seat: Lady Naean (Variously supported Gaebril, and Rand, in the Books)
House Taravin (Owl and Oak), High Seat: Lady Dyelin (Becomes powerful, without heir of own, supports Elayne in book)
House Anshar (Running Red Fox), High Seat: Lady Karind (Went against Morgase in the succession, looks for influence, supports Gaebril in books)
Notes on the 4 Houses from: 13depository.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=andor+noble
Progression After Rank 3
- RP; More solely player driven, DM interaction, player driven voting/alliance making [doesn't lose Epic 1, but can lose e.g. special positions/change over]
Ranks Suggestions
- Candidate for Adoption / Morganatic Entrant (Two ways of getting into the House)
- Successor
- Lord/Lady [Parallel but special ranks: Cup Bearer / Lord/Lady of the Hunt / Spy / House Wisdom]
- Lord/Lady [Parallel but special ranks: Captain of the House Guard / Official Representative to the Court / Official - - - Trade Delegate / Official Diplomatic Delegate / Spy Master]
- House Heir [Almost parallel, special rank] Master of Coin
- High Seat
Items
- Ring with increasing skills depending on Rank and Speciality
----------------------ADDED EDITS FOR EASE OF READING-----------------------
5 Further Ideas:
1. Grand Election
- While special positions Rank 3/Epic 1/2 are determined fortnightly
- It might make sense to have the High Seat granted more continuity - make it a monthly election? for High Seat to retain their status
2. Payment System
- AS well as vouching, and the scripted quests at lower rank
- Maybe have the Master of Coin/House Heir/High Seat able to pay out similar to the scripted tokens for jobs and favours done IC
3. Money System (Cap's mentioned elsewhere)
- Ability to invest scripted tokens as X value into a commodity investment system with risk/reward
4. Other Quest Ideas
- External to Andor, competition could be based around locating rare/valuable items including stuff made by the One Power to further the House, competing with other Houses or major factions
5. Inter-House Games
- 2-3 Monthly Event to be hosted in rotation by each House, from the pool of RP and Token funds [up to the High Seat, House Heir and Master of Coin to cajole contributions and utilise the coffers]
b]I guess for anyone reading this idea...on balance, well first of all I'm not one who's leading advocation for this, but I just wanted to help for those interested in how such a system could look. I am happy to go with the vote though, at some point if that wins.
Secondly, this really would be a gigantic change for the server. And with our numbers even at highly active times, it would still in my opinion require just about everyone to be within the Noble's system to be able to support three houses.[/b]
While our extended playerbase numbers up to 30, a more real number of players on would be this:
Low Active Time: 2-5
Decent Active Time: 8-11
High Active Time 13-17
So...imagine if you had 3 Houses at each time, equally distributed (to be called upon, i.e. some players may remain purely non-faction or factional but have nobles as well, or if both noble and factional or non-faction (gear system) and noble), hypothetically:
Low Active: Maybe 1 from Each House
Decent Active: Maybe 3 from Each House
High Active: Maybe 3/4/5/6 from Each House[/b]
Basic Point: Faction RP as we know it would probably end up dying if this takes off. And with that, the work of characters in factions as such. Some might be happy enough with this! Or desiring of change! But I feel this would be the result if 3 Houses would be viable RP.
Further Ideas 2
1. Houses would lobby Andoran laws for privileges
2. Noble House codes? helps make RP more interesting sometimes
3. Putting pressure on the courts?
4. A special noble's court for extreme offences?
5. Otherwise, a sort of tacit agreement to keep things out of courts and the court (Queen)? can imagine situations where actual fighting between Houses occurs outside Andor but that those involved have to suck it up in Andor (generally, unless all out House War takes places!)
6. Potential for secret kidnappings of other House members to gain stuff
You might ask why Non-Faction and other not fully supported "factions" are playable if this idea would be itself a problem for existing faction rp:
My answer would by this:
- The layout of Non-Faction Progression and Other Non-Supported Factions are still in a sense players gravitating around the central factions of the White Tower (And Younglings) and Black Tower (And Legion). The Children of the Light are a bit of an outlier, but tend to at least get in on a lot of player driven conflict as well as some events (though it is difficult with so few DMs).
- Going with a full Noble system of such depth, for it to have any meaning and feeling, would for me require 1) Numbers, 2) Detailed RP, 3) Ways of calculating House Power and so forth - other written (including physical manifestation) "tangibles" of RP 4) This requires eventual dedication that doesn't really coincide well with Most Factional Structures (although I'm not ruling it out as such)
- Furthermore, if the Noble System were to be central in the server - this would mean I would shift events to be located around the Andor and Player House axis rather than around Factions with situations being what they're mucking around in from a more external position. I don't doubt that if this happens (unless more DMs step forward rapidly), Factions will eventually wane without DM support and more people would shift to a Noble System or simply leave the server because their old characters they'd worked on just became unplayable.
Other problems include:
- Then what would become of channelers? Would they become rare? Would anyone even be training them?
- Or would it move to a more melee intense system?
- Or, imagine if faction remains pretty untouched? Ok...so you try and kidnap or threaten a House? Asha'man response: I'll just burn your House. Aes Sedai response: I'll just go speak with the Queen, be right back....I don't know how it'd work to be fair ><
- Unless of course everyone would prefer such a thing to be the centre of the server - make it more of a cross between Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones
- On the other hand...maybe this is just a bigger system than what some people want? However, I don't know how it could really work playing a Noble properly with the kind of attention people want without an extensive and meaningful RP setting for it.
It also presents a bit of wierd lore problem given that Nobles tend to be trumped by most of the new forces in the WoT world. So perhaps you'd have to chuck it back in time to work at all. I don't even know.
Anyway, having said all that, I guess I'd be interested to see how many people are actually for this completely still? In some sense of a system or other? Or if not, can they actually think of anything that would work better than Nobles as RP flavor? As in any full fledged offerings? Or Nobles as some kind of "Talent" system? That you know, still wouldn't feel all that Noble simply because we can't just manifest the network of meaning that it would make it feel like such.
[Summarising previous discussion here: srweaves.proboards.com/thread/282/nobility-discussion-thread-2]
- Resource Intensive?
- Limited to a few Houses
- How would one be both an active Noble and active Faction Member?
- Requires a lot of creativity and interaction
- That no one has proposed a full fledged idea that actually wants it worries me about it's long term success
- May take away from Factions
- I don’t know what you guys think, but well, here are some pressing IC concerns too (unless you all make new characters for it):
- Would be IC impossible for Novices/Accepted due to travel restrictions and manner of training
- Would be IC difficult for Asha’man due to high requirements of loyalty and dangerousness
- Would be IC unlikely the average Child of the Light would split himself such (though could be a ploy to get into Andor)
The Idea Based on What You’ve all Said
- Possibility ncreasing Skills/Rank and Skills/Specialized Rank
- More Responsibility and Power to Direct House Affairs at Meetings, Events, Interaction with DMs, Calibre of Scripted Quest
- Max Rank 3 if in a Player Faction
- List of IC commodities, land, structures, troops, servant types, messengers and so forth that one can purchase by accumulating scripted quest tokens (at Higher ranks) and DM and Player Vouches
- More fluid system of losing and gaining prestige eg. Fortnightly Dinner Meeting in which, at the end, a secret vote to determine special ranks in the faction is carried out – to appoint/confirm positions, so must build alliances
RP Ideas – Player Driven and Events that Are For All / Can Be Earned with Rank
- Partaking in Feasts and Festivals
- Organizing Feasts and Festivals (Player Driven, using a commodity purchase system) – one can e.g. pool allies when it is their turn to buy better things to show off at a feast
- Winning rights to negotiate House contracts (RP rank – event)
- Hold poetry competitions or performance nights (player driven)
- Hire player performers (Player driven)
- Participating at the Queen’s court (ranked)
- Dealing with other Houses (any rank; but more event stuff centred on you at higher rank – though not usually excluding others except high level meetings)
Promotion
- Progression through: accumulation of scripted quest completion tokens, but largely through RP Vouch System [As only getting RP skill item and to make House more dynamic immediately, suggest a faster pace than Non-faction progression]
- Fortnightly dinner
- Duelling
- General intrigue possible (Player driven)
- Be Master of Coin (event influence)
- Organize the hunt (ranked) - e.g. pick location, resources etc.
- Spying (player driven, some events)
- Bump off or intrigue NPC rivals in the special positions in the House that exist when all are Rank 1
Quests: (Scripted Quests Available around Ranks 1-3) That Award X Number of Tokens [Most progression would still be RP based] But these are also useful to buy commodities in the short term
- Initially, one can use lesser valued Scripted Quest tokens to help purchase items (along with RP vouches)
- These would be in the form of a “purchase order” based on a list of goods able to procured to Andor, time it would take to deliver, value, and floating rates based on wars/famines, disease, the usual stuff, it may well be that the value rises or falls by the time it gets to you
Scripted Quest Ideas (R1 - 3):
- Messenger to other Houses in Caemlyn
- Learn the House Lore
- Taste wine at the vinyards, pick the best for dinner
- Crack a secret message code
- Foil an assassination of the High Seat
- Guard the treasury Vault from thieves
- Train the House Guard
House Suggestions [PICK 2 or 3]:
House Renshar (Three Golden Hounds), High Seat: Lady Arathelle (Morgase supporter in the Books)
House Arawn (Silver triple keys), High Seat: Lady Naean (Variously supported Gaebril, and Rand, in the Books)
House Taravin (Owl and Oak), High Seat: Lady Dyelin (Becomes powerful, without heir of own, supports Elayne in book)
House Anshar (Running Red Fox), High Seat: Lady Karind (Went against Morgase in the succession, looks for influence, supports Gaebril in books)
Notes on the 4 Houses from: 13depository.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=andor+noble
Progression After Rank 3
- RP; More solely player driven, DM interaction, player driven voting/alliance making [doesn't lose Epic 1, but can lose e.g. special positions/change over]
Ranks Suggestions
- Candidate for Adoption / Morganatic Entrant (Two ways of getting into the House)
- Successor
- Lord/Lady [Parallel but special ranks: Cup Bearer / Lord/Lady of the Hunt / Spy / House Wisdom]
- Lord/Lady [Parallel but special ranks: Captain of the House Guard / Official Representative to the Court / Official - - - Trade Delegate / Official Diplomatic Delegate / Spy Master]
- House Heir [Almost parallel, special rank] Master of Coin
- High Seat
Items
- Ring with increasing skills depending on Rank and Speciality
----------------------ADDED EDITS FOR EASE OF READING-----------------------
5 Further Ideas:
1. Grand Election
- While special positions Rank 3/Epic 1/2 are determined fortnightly
- It might make sense to have the High Seat granted more continuity - make it a monthly election? for High Seat to retain their status
2. Payment System
- AS well as vouching, and the scripted quests at lower rank
- Maybe have the Master of Coin/House Heir/High Seat able to pay out similar to the scripted tokens for jobs and favours done IC
3. Money System (Cap's mentioned elsewhere)
- Ability to invest scripted tokens as X value into a commodity investment system with risk/reward
4. Other Quest Ideas
- External to Andor, competition could be based around locating rare/valuable items including stuff made by the One Power to further the House, competing with other Houses or major factions
5. Inter-House Games
- 2-3 Monthly Event to be hosted in rotation by each House, from the pool of RP and Token funds [up to the High Seat, House Heir and Master of Coin to cajole contributions and utilise the coffers]
b]I guess for anyone reading this idea...on balance, well first of all I'm not one who's leading advocation for this, but I just wanted to help for those interested in how such a system could look. I am happy to go with the vote though, at some point if that wins.
Secondly, this really would be a gigantic change for the server. And with our numbers even at highly active times, it would still in my opinion require just about everyone to be within the Noble's system to be able to support three houses.[/b]
While our extended playerbase numbers up to 30, a more real number of players on would be this:
Low Active Time: 2-5
Decent Active Time: 8-11
High Active Time 13-17
So...imagine if you had 3 Houses at each time, equally distributed (to be called upon, i.e. some players may remain purely non-faction or factional but have nobles as well, or if both noble and factional or non-faction (gear system) and noble), hypothetically:
Low Active: Maybe 1 from Each House
Decent Active: Maybe 3 from Each House
High Active: Maybe 3/4/5/6 from Each House[/b]
Basic Point: Faction RP as we know it would probably end up dying if this takes off. And with that, the work of characters in factions as such. Some might be happy enough with this! Or desiring of change! But I feel this would be the result if 3 Houses would be viable RP.
Further Ideas 2
1. Houses would lobby Andoran laws for privileges
2. Noble House codes? helps make RP more interesting sometimes
3. Putting pressure on the courts?
4. A special noble's court for extreme offences?
5. Otherwise, a sort of tacit agreement to keep things out of courts and the court (Queen)? can imagine situations where actual fighting between Houses occurs outside Andor but that those involved have to suck it up in Andor (generally, unless all out House War takes places!)
6. Potential for secret kidnappings of other House members to gain stuff
You might ask why Non-Faction and other not fully supported "factions" are playable if this idea would be itself a problem for existing faction rp:
My answer would by this:
- The layout of Non-Faction Progression and Other Non-Supported Factions are still in a sense players gravitating around the central factions of the White Tower (And Younglings) and Black Tower (And Legion). The Children of the Light are a bit of an outlier, but tend to at least get in on a lot of player driven conflict as well as some events (though it is difficult with so few DMs).
- Going with a full Noble system of such depth, for it to have any meaning and feeling, would for me require 1) Numbers, 2) Detailed RP, 3) Ways of calculating House Power and so forth - other written (including physical manifestation) "tangibles" of RP 4) This requires eventual dedication that doesn't really coincide well with Most Factional Structures (although I'm not ruling it out as such)
- Furthermore, if the Noble System were to be central in the server - this would mean I would shift events to be located around the Andor and Player House axis rather than around Factions with situations being what they're mucking around in from a more external position. I don't doubt that if this happens (unless more DMs step forward rapidly), Factions will eventually wane without DM support and more people would shift to a Noble System or simply leave the server because their old characters they'd worked on just became unplayable.
Other problems include:
- Then what would become of channelers? Would they become rare? Would anyone even be training them?
- Or would it move to a more melee intense system?
- Or, imagine if faction remains pretty untouched? Ok...so you try and kidnap or threaten a House? Asha'man response: I'll just burn your House. Aes Sedai response: I'll just go speak with the Queen, be right back....I don't know how it'd work to be fair ><
- Unless of course everyone would prefer such a thing to be the centre of the server - make it more of a cross between Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones
- On the other hand...maybe this is just a bigger system than what some people want? However, I don't know how it could really work playing a Noble properly with the kind of attention people want without an extensive and meaningful RP setting for it.
It also presents a bit of wierd lore problem given that Nobles tend to be trumped by most of the new forces in the WoT world. So perhaps you'd have to chuck it back in time to work at all. I don't even know.
Anyway, having said all that, I guess I'd be interested to see how many people are actually for this completely still? In some sense of a system or other? Or if not, can they actually think of anything that would work better than Nobles as RP flavor? As in any full fledged offerings? Or Nobles as some kind of "Talent" system? That you know, still wouldn't feel all that Noble simply because we can't just manifest the network of meaning that it would make it feel like such.
I would not vote for the idea myself but would be a good idea to see where everyone stands on the matter. As for making new chars I myself would be will to make a new char for this, as It would be interesting to start with a new background and different type of rp then I have had over all the years on WoT. This idea flame said "More fluid system of losing and gaining prestige eg. Fortnightly Dinner Meeting in which, at the end, a secret vote to determine special ranks in the faction is carried out – to appoint/confirm positions, so must build alliancne" I really like it rather then one person running it, can change every once in a while to give everyone that puts into it the ability to run the house based on how much rp they put in to there peers.I also like all the rp ideas and sure more can be thought of though rp ^^ and the scripted quests sound cool flame